I am considering "Create Space" as a publisher

topic posted Wed, May 27, 2009 - 10:37 AM by  Schrödinger'...
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The parent Company is: On-Demand Publishing, LLC, This company is owned by Amazon.com
Make no mistake about this is a Vanity press but, it is one with extras.
You can sell on Amazon or their own site.
Marketing is entirely your problem.

I did a National search of all reported caselaw and found only one instance where this company “On-Demand Publishing, LLC,” Is mentioned (Sandler v. Calcagni, 565 F.Supp.2d 184 (D.Me.,2008) ). They were caught up in a case where an author published information allegedly about a person who believed themselves to have been defamed by the information in the book. The suit did not allege any wrong by On-Demand Publishing, LLC, against the Author. The case is interesting in that the court went into some detail about the mechanics of how books are sold this way. If you want to read it PM me and I’ll PM you back a copy.

There is another Amaxon subsidiary called “BookSurge” www.booksurge.com/content/G...eneral.htm


The royalty and fee structure is not too onerous and the agreement is non exclusive. Which means you can sign with another publisher if such an opportunity comes along.
However, it is perpetual. Which fact may trouble another publisher as they will always have to share control with CreateSpace. Read all of Section 6 in their Agreement. It covers ownership and what exactly is it to which they have a perpetual license to.

If they are sued based on your work you will have agreed to indemnify, hold harmless, (you have no claims against CreateSpace) and DEFEND them: meaning you pay for their Lawyer and costs.

On the up side:
Amazon’s lawyers were not smart enough to include the Dollar Amount for Attorney’s fees and admin’ costs. Whenever you are drafting an agreement that contemplates attorney’s fees you should always specify an amount certain for lawyer fees. Specify it in an actual dollar amount per hour and specify another dollar amount for administrative and secretarial costs. I like to set my lawyer fees in agreements which I draft at $1,500.00 per hour and admin etc, fees at $300.00 per hour. This way you can’t get an ornery judge who wants to fuck your lawyer and give him One-Dollar per hour. Yes judges do this all too often. But if it’s in the agreement it is much harder for them to fuck with it. They still can but, it’s grounds for an appeal if they do.
And of course if end up looking for a lawyer to take your case, having a fee with the sum certain right there in the agreement is a powerful inducement for the lawyer because he knows that if he wins he will have both you and the other guy on the hook for his fee.
( bet you didn’t know any of that before did ya)







Right now I am still pouring over the agreement (www.createspace.com/Help/Rig...ement.jsp ) looking for traps and pitfalls.
It’s got the usual crap about you agreeing to whatever changes they make to the agreement so long as you continue to use the service after the changes are effective.

There is some odd language abut pricing. Throughout the site you are assured that you set the list price. But this (below quoted) paragraph is not quite in sync with those assurances:
“ We will have sole discretion in setting the selling price to Customers for all Units made available for sale on the Amazon Properties. You will provide a List Price for each Title […] which will be at or below (a) the price at which you list or offer that title via any other sales channel; and (b) the price at which you sell such title in physical form to customers through any distribution method. For the purpose of this Agreement, "List Price" means the list price that you submit to us per individual Title. Please note that you may update the List Price for your Titles at any time in accordance with the Submission Requirements, but it may take as long as 30 days for the list price on the Amazon Properties to be updated.”

Credit Card Fraud and Bad debt:
You the Author must pony up to cover their asses if they are scammed. You don’t have to cover their fees but, rather you pay back your royalties.

TERMINATION:
It is mutual. Either party can get out of the agreement at any time They can do it by E-mail and you can do it electronically too.
I however, always prefer to double up with that tried and true Certified US Mail Return Receipt Requested.


I'll post back with whatever else I find.

There are two outlets for CreateSpace one is their E-Store and the other is Amazon
The E-Store takes 20% of the list price
Amazon takes 40% of the list price

They have two membership schedules I one is called the Pro-Plan. I’m still trying to figure why paying the extra will return any benefits. The Pro Plan is not mentioned in the Agreement.

-*************************************************************-
Books with 24 - 108 pages:
………….…………………………Standard plan ……………….Pro Plan
Fixed Charge Per Book …………….$3.66 …….…………… $2.15
Charge per Page……………………….None……………………None

Books with 110 - 828 pages
………….…………………………Standard plan ……………….Pro Plan
Fixed Charge Per Book ……………….$1.50 …….…………… $0.85
Charge per Page…………………..…….$0.02……………………$0.012

-****************************************************************-

For Books with Color images
Books with 20 – 40 Pages
………….…………………………Standard plan ……………….Pro Plan
Fixed Charge Per Book …………….$6.55 …….…………… $3.65
Charge per Page……………………….None……………………None

Books with 42-250 Pages
………….…………………………Standard plan ……………….Pro Plan
Fixed Charge Per Book………..…….$1.75 …….…………… $0.85
Charge per Page……………………….$0.12……………………..$0.07

-*************************************************************-
EXAMPLE of a book with a List Price of $16.00

…………………….…eStore Sale…………………………. Amazon.com Sale
Seller’s fee….………. $7.70 …………………………………….$10.90
Author’s Royalty…… $8.30 …………………………………..…$5.10
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  • At any rate do please post here if you know anything about this site or maybe a better one.
    • What I'm leery of is that through CreateSpace and BookSurge, Amazon would control distribution of both paper and electronic formats. For example, two of the e-book formats I offer for my own work are MOBI and PRC, for use with for Kindle or Kindle-compatible readers. To convert to those formats, I used readily-available freeware, and people who want those formats can download the files directly from my website anywhere in the world (and now from Manybooks.net, which offers even more formats). In contrast, if Amazon published my book(s) through BookSurge or CreateSpace, they would have the *exclusive* right to format the work for Kindle (which Amazon owns). That means that they would control not only distribution there, but people wanting electronic copies of the book would have to buy it from Amazon exclusively. Distribution rights are becoming at least as big now as rights concerning ownership of text. There are self-publishing outfits, like Lulu, that will print books without taking distribution rights -- though one Lulu package gives them those rights.

      As of February 2009, Kindle was still not being sold overseas, nor were downloads of new work available from Amazon overseas:
      freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/20...sa/

      Comments following the Times blog entry refer to international laws as being part of the problem.

      Exclusive control can also lead to unresolved technical problems. See, for example:
      www.kreelanwarrior.com/2009/0...ore-266

      Given the rate at which software changes, by retaining control of my work and its distribution, I also have full freedom to upgrade my files if I think it's necessary.

      Here's a primer on what often happens to authors' rights in general:
      booksquare.com/simon-schu...-of-rights/

      Also check out this post about Amazon's new Encore program:
      www.fictioncircus.com/news.php

      My situation: The first book of my six-volume series was published in 2007. The sequel was to be published last year, but then my publisher tanked (without paying royalties to its authors). I am currently offering free downloads of the first and second volumes, so my situation is different from someone looking for money right off the bat. Right now I'm working to build a readership. Offering free e-books is not new. Some, like Jeffrey A. Carver, are doing it as a marketing tool for print work. I'm doing it to keep my momentum going, since readers who bought the first book had been asking me when the second was coming out (yay!) and I've gotten good reviews (ditto!). In less than a week, Vol. 1, Deviations: Covenant, has been downloaded more than 150 times from Manybooks.net ( manybooks.net/titles/malc...ovenant.html ). In the 2-1/2 weeks since I registered my own site with Google Analytics, I've gotten more than 300 visitors and almost 600 page views, from 31 countries/territories on six continents (all but Antarctica). All six of my books are registered with the US Copyright Office (the final two are being processed, but registration begins the day the books, forms, and fees are received). All six have ISBNs that I register with Bowker prior to release. Currently, those ISBNs do not get me into major distribution channels, but they do get me into the system.

      Lightning Source (affiliated with major distributor Ingram, www.lightningsource.com ) works with publishers and with individual authors solely as a printer. In this case, the author becomes the publisher. I'm currently looking into what they have to offer, particularly because they are linked to global distribution channels. Needless to say, I'm still learning my way around a constantly moving target.

      In case anyone is interested in converting their work to downloadable e-book formats, I've blogged about it here:
      hurricanecountry.blogspot.com/200...html

      The entry includes a link to my Deviations website.
      • The CreatSpace agreement does expressly use the world "nonexclusive" to eliminate the problems of total control.
        Either party can terminate the agreement at will.
        Those are pretty good elements.
        • Here's what I read in the agreement (I use asterisks to emphasize terms):

          Section 1: "We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement ..." -- always something to keep in mind. Unless you act, it is assumed that you agree with the changes, which you would have to find on your own ("Changes to referenced policies and guidelines or any other information in any Products, Help, or other web pages may be posted without notice to you").

          While it is true that Section 6.1 specifies a "nonexclusive" license, I would take note of the third paragraph: "Accordingly, for each of your written Titles you hereby grant us permission, on a nonexclusive, ***perpetual*** basis, to (x) reproduce and store the entirety of each Title in digital form on one or more computer facilities of or under the control of us or our affiliates or our independent contractors; and (y) to display portions of each Title on the Amazon Properties so that a user will be able to (i) use queries to locate, select and display excerpts that include the search terms for every occurrence of the search terms; and (ii) view a limited number of pages within a Title during any single session."

          Section 6.5 sounds especially squishy to me: "Subject to the licenses set forth in this Section 6 and the following sentence, and as between the parties, you own all right, title and interest in and to the Content, including all patent, copyright, trademark, service mark, mask work, moral right, trade secret or other intellectual property or proprietary right (collectively, "Intellectual Property Rights") therein. Subject to your underlying rights in the Content, as between the parties, we will own all right, title and interest in and to the templates and other materials created, provided or used by us in our performance under this Agreement (including ***Source Files***, Future-Proof Archive Files and Packaging Materials), including all Intellectual Property Rights therein."

          While the agreement states that you own all right, title, and interest in and to the Content, Amazon/CreateSpace will own all right, title, and interest in (among other things) the Source Files. The submissions section specifies that source material be delivered in these formats: .pdf, DVD, CD, videotape, and MP3. If you have rights to the content but they have rights to the source files, how much flexibility does that give you for delivering your content in a "nonexclusive" manner? Many publishers/printers want .pdf files if they're going to produce a book. Note also that Section 6.5 survives the termination of the agreement; see below.

          Section 10: "The following Sections will survive termination of this Agreement: 4.1, 4.4, 5, 6 (except subsections 6.1(a)-(d) and (f)), 8.1, 8.3, 9, 10, 14, 15, and 16."

          Note that this includes Section 6. Even excluding the stated subsections, you would still be granting Amazon/CreateSpace *perpetual* permission to use your work as stated in the third paragraph (reproduced above).

          Another section that survives termination of the agreement is Section 8.1: "You will indemnify, defend and hold us and our affiliates (and the respective employees, directors, members, managers and representatives of each) and any operator of an Amazon Property harmless from and against any and all claims, judgments, damages and expenses (including without limitation reasonable attorneys' fees) (collectively, "Claims") arising out of any breach or alleged breach by you of the terms of this Agreement..."

          "Affiliates" is a loaded term here. Note in Section 16, for example, "We may sublicense the rights granted to us hereunder to our affiliates or to any third party designated or engaged by us and acting on our behalf for purposes of fulfilling our obligations or exercising our rights under this Agreement..." Note that this includes the rights Amazon/CreateSpace would hold in perpetuity, including past the termination of the Agreement.

          Could this be important? Consider that Amazon's "Search Inside!" feature (to which the agreement gives Amazon/CreateSpace perpetual rights that survive termination of the agreement) works much the way that Google's digitization of books works. The Google Settlement will create a Book Rights Registry that would pay the author a nominal fee while taking away the lion's share of income and control. You can read the Ashley Grayson Literary Agency's take on it here:
          graysonagency.com/blog/publ...ettlement/

          So far as I know, the Google settlement does not apply to Amazon's "Search Inside!" feature. It does, however, set a dangerous precedent. First, the Google settlement supersedes actual contractual language between publisher and author ("...grants the publisher electronic rights to those books even though the contracts may not contain e-rights language"). Second, the agreement expands to control more formats at the expense of the author ("The agreement allows for Google and the Book Rights Registry to expand upon this with future additional offerings such as Print-on-Demand, Consumer Subscription, and other uses and services"). Third, it empowers affiliates at the expense of the author ("While it sets up one agency the authors can’t fire, it also allows any number of additional sellers of display and e-rights to start businesses with the virtual guarantee that they never have to pay an author more than Google did. So Microsoft, Apple, The Open Source Republic of Gimmiestan, Piranah.com, etc. can all start businesses of any type and draw on all authors’ works without any further negotiation").

          If Google, through this settlement, can reassign authors' rights and income to its affiliates, what might that say about Amazon/CreateSpace, whose section on sublicensing survives agreement termination?

          If I sound paranoid here, it's for a reason: a contract is only as good as your ability to enforce it. I have not received a penny in royalties from my former publisher, nor any kind of royalty statement since February 2008 for a book published in September 2007. Furthermore, the royalty statement contradicts my contract. I and other authors who have experienced the same have consulted with lawyers, including a specialist in intellectual property. Bottom line: we could each take the publisher to small claims court, but even if we won our cases, there would be no way to enforce the judgment. Our best course of action was to register our works with the U.S. Copyright Office (which I have done for all six books in my series), which does not protect one against infringement but provides important legal support if infringement occurs. Most important, all of our rights have returned to us. And, given what I've stated above, rights are not to be taken lightly.

          Given my and others' experiences with a small press publisher, how much more power do you think Amazon has? All I'm saying is to go into any agreement with your eyes as wide open as possible.
          • I thought the section 6 was bizarre. It does not say that they can sell the work in perpetuity. what it is saying is that they can leave it on their systems and let people access excerpts in searches . Essentially it's them saying that they may be too damn lazy to bother purging it from their systems and don't you get your pennies in a bunch if you find that they still have copies of it laying around on databases here and there.

            Or an analogy to the hard book business might be that whether or not you terminate the agreement the publisher is under no obligation to dispose of all the unsold copies of your work. They can leave them in a ware house and let them rot - you don't have any say in the matter.

            That is how I read it.. I think Tribe's insistence that if you post it to tribe that they own it is in the same spirit. Tribe does not want you accusing them of having destroyed your property wen they clean out their DASDI space. I can't bring myself to believe that they want to re publish your material for profit, - - - - - - - - - - - However there are instances where the shit you posted to Tribe may make good ad copy and once you make that agreement with tribe they can use it however they please. Tribes is pretty all inclusive "We own it"

            CreateSpace is merely saying that it'll probably be laying around for a very long time.

            What does bother me is that they demand your SS number so they can pay your taxes
            This is craxy. Only you are responsible to pay your taxes in this situation because you are not an employee. You are an independent business entity.


            • I still feel squirrely about the big conglomerates, especially when it comes to contracts that can be interpreted in different ways. Mind you, I'm speaking strictly as a layman here.

              I share your apprehension about them asking for your SS#. Yikes. The IRS requires that you fill out Form 1099 MISC if you earn gross royalty payments of $10 or more (a ridiculously low amount when you consider that other freelancers must report anything over $600). Submitting that form is the author's responsibility, not the publisher's. Again: Yikes.
              • I am half way to seeing them demanding my SS and managing my taxes as a good thing.

                I only need to see one screw up once. Suddenly I am in the big leagues.

                Of course in order for them to screw up I have to be selling books and that is always the tough one.


                I have ben entirely unable to locate any data on:
                1.) how well people are doing at that ( income or sales volume per annum data)
                2.) what sort of books they are writing
                3.) What they are doing by way of marketing
                4.) If they got any marquee names to review their work on the record and if so how?

                • Cliff, my general advice on this is to consider vanity/POD publishers only as a last resort, when you have truly exhausted every other possibility. There are probably a dozen good sf/fantasy agents - have you submitted to all of them? There are probably a couple dozen small press publishers to whom you could submit directly. Have you contacted each of these?

                  It's not uncommon for a book to take a few years to find a proper home. Have patience.

                  The vanity/POD route could benefit you IF you know that you can market the suckers yourself and build a good sales record. It can hurt you if you go that route and sell very few.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    ************Cliff, my general advice on this is to consider vanity/POD publishers only as a last resort, when you have truly exhausted every other possibility. There are probably a dozen good sf/fantasy agents - have you submitted to all of them? There are probably a couple dozen small press publishers to whom you could submit directly. Have you contacted each of these?***********

                    Tell me who these agents are and I'll fiund 'em.

                    Chances are I spoke to all the publishers. But don't stand on formality what are the editor's names and the companies too?

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